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Author Topic: Extensions Update 2  (Read 347 times)

Offline everchanging

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Extensions Update 2
« on: April 04, 2021, 07:09:27 PM »
Hi guys, a quick question.

I have a few extensions that are telling me that updates are available.
But when I go to marketplace > extensions download > I do not see the updated versions so as to download them and to install them manually.
Never happened to me in the past.

Could someone please advice me?
I thank you in advance  :)
"I know one thing; that I know nothing"

Offline Basara

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Re: Extensions Update 2
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2021, 03:07:22 AM »
Hello.
Please read the Extended Support explanation https://marketplace.abantecart.com/order-support#extended

Offline everchanging

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Re: Extensions Update 2
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2021, 04:30:14 PM »
Hi Basara, thank you for the link and I just read it.

OK, I get what it is saying; I just have a quick question though:

Let us say someone has 15 already paid extensions.
Once the 120 days expire that person would have to pay at least 20 US dollars to renew the extensions.
Thus, 15X20 gives us minimum 300 US dollars / 4 months.
In other terms, that person would have to pay roughly 1000 US dollars / year to just renew the already bought and existing extensions.

I believe you see where I am getting with it right? Does it make sense to you?
No matter where you look - be it App stores, other softwares etc. you either buy it flat out (like extensions here) or you pay a yearly fee (which would make no sense in our case). The third option is if you ask the developer for help to solve something for you - in which case you pay for his support (I did it for one of my extensions - and I can understand why I had to do it; no problem).

But this, for every 120 days, is complete nonsense. I am running roughly 15-20 extensions here...

PS: and what about the case Abantecart upgrades to a new higher version itself in which most extensions would have to be updated by default?
« Last Edit: April 05, 2021, 04:36:28 PM by everchanging »
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Offline llegrand

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Re: Extensions Update 2
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2021, 06:56:04 PM »
Everchanging,   I will let the AbanteCart devs answer most of your concerns.   But let me clear up the time frame.   The ORIGINAL buy allows for updates and support  for 120 days (4 months).   You can extend that to a year (twelve months) at purchase time. 

If you want continuing updates  you can renew your updates and support for a year (twelve months) at a time.

The actual time should relieve you a bit.

When you buy a vehicle you need to supply it with fuel, oil , new tires on occasion etc.  You can't say to the vehicle maker  I bought your car you need to keep it running.

Let me just add from an extensions provider side,  it takes times and effort to maintain extensions to continue working for each of the AbanteCart version updates.  Sometimes with the change  it takes almost as much time to update an extension as it did to write it originally.  So for many years,  extension providers get paid once and provide free updates several times a year,  in our case for 7 years for some of them.   IMO  that is one of the reasons AbanteCart lags behind other carts in extensions and templates. 

I am sure AbanteCart Devs will expand on why they moved to this model.



Offline everchanging

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Re: Extensions Update 2
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2021, 08:49:32 PM »
HI llegrand thanks for the reply and input.

Let me clarify something: I am not looking down on any developer. The developers worked hard to create a good extension and of course they should be paid for it (which is understandable and I agree with it).

The thing changes once someone starts using too many extensions so as to constantly enhance his/her shop.
I mean think about it: if you use 1, 2 or 3 extensions OK; there is no point to talk about it.

But what happens if someone goes beyond 10 extensions?
The underlying point is that by following this model Abantecart itself has put a stop-limiter on itself because it becomes not affordable for someone to buy many extensions because the so called "car" upkeep costs cannot be sustained; and thus, instead of going for a BMW (just saying) someone will have to settle with a Hyundai (brought forth as an example).

Remember my friend: a Hyundai and a Ferrari are both cars but they are like day and night appart.

Similar, while Abantecart has great potential - in my humble opinion - with such a model they will never reach it.

Once again, thank you for your valuable input.  :)

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Offline llegrand

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Re: Extensions Update 2
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2021, 09:53:50 PM »
I hear your viewpoint,  but let's redo your math a bit.  Overall averages of the extensions in the marketplace is about $30.  some more,  some less,  but let's talk averages.   So  12 months of updates and support would be $10 for that $30 avg extensions.   That is less than $1/mo.   Even if we multiply by your 15 extensions  that's $15/mo.   So give up a couple of StarBucks coffees for the month?  Bet you tip your uber driver about that for delivery (most folks do.

And extensions are optional for your cart.  AbanteCart core  is pretty robust right from the start. But Admins who are code challenged and want or need something special for their store have the option to buy an extension  or build one,  or figure out how to maximize the core store.  Heated seats on a BMW are options too, but pretty nice to have in the frozen north!.

BTW,  you may not be aware that AbanteCart core devs get 25% of the fees in the MarketPlace.  You know they provide a great open source cart free of charge,  but they have ongoing costs like all of us.  So when you buy an extension or extended support you are contributing to the cart longevity also.


Cheers,  everchanging.


Offline everchanging

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Re: Extensions Update 2
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2021, 10:24:29 PM »
I hear your point as well llegrand.

But I also believe that you will also agree on the fact that heated seats etc - as you sarcastically called it I guess - is what sets the elite cars apart from the rest; and there is a ton of people who go for that rather than something plain.

Also, there are a ton of apps out there that pretty much do the same thing (i.e. phone apps) but because some apps are able to provide that little extra is what sets them apart from the rest.3
Of course it all comes down to each store owner and his/her personal style, ambition, or vision how he/she wants to set things up, but looks do affect perception.
Common now, when a beautiful woman passes we turn around to look at her because she has these "heating seats" but when a plain woman appears how many turn their heads (I am not trying to make a "racist joke here" but trying to drive a point that looks do matter ; regardless if we like it or not).

Also, I never claimed or looked down on how robust and good Abantecart is (I am using it you know?!) but all you do is illustrating the devs viewpoint without taking into consideration the other side.

Sure, business is business and money has to be made; I applaud that. But there are countless other ways that can generate money.

 

PS: as for the math take a look at the attached pic that I have for one of them and multiply it with the 15 extensions. PLUS(!) whenever I needed to fix something I also had to pay additional money for the devs support.
So we have:
1. Paying for the extension's updates
2. Paying for the devs support whenever it may be needed (I already did that a couple of times - I am cool with it)

So, my math pretty much is accurate when leaving my pocket  ;)
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Offline llegrand

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Re: Extensions Update 2
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2021, 11:28:36 PM »
....

« Last Edit: April 05, 2021, 11:55:58 PM by llegrand »

Offline everchanging

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Re: Extensions Update 2
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2021, 11:51:29 PM »
At that time, I just had bought the extension but the extension was not running correctly for whatever reason.
Thus, so as for the dev to solve the issue, he requested that I pay him to fix the issue - something like support (for an extension that I did buy an hour ago).
The dev solved it afterwards.


My friend, to clarify, I am not trying to tell you, or anyone, how Abantecart has to run things - their platform their rules.

My point is:
Since I am paying for the extensions' updates at least give me free support.
If on the other hand I have to pay support than give me free updates (otherwise the extensions by default will become obsolete).

Paying for both in my opinion does not make sense.

And to clarify: I am a dev myself (in another area) so I fully support developers.
I am using softwares (irrelevant with Abantecart) but never ever, had I to pay for both support and updates.

This is what I asked Basara at the beginning: why?

And when I said that with this model Abantecart will never reach its full potential, I did not say it so as to look down on it BUT because it strips users from going full trotel.

Think about the following case: a new user comes to start his/ her e-commerce. But instead for going for multiple extensions (thus, increasing sales for Abanetcart) he goes for only 1 or 2.
Who do you think loses in this case more: the user or the devs?

To conclude: I just expressed my personal opinion here.
And to also solve your question: I will not pay for any extension support since my e-commerce is running OK, as is, and due to my small knowledge I am able to do what is necessary.
In my case specifically, who loses here?

Abantecart may view me as something like a peculiar customer that is not satisfied while the devs lose overall since: a) they are not paid for any updates and b) since I do not touch anything no support is needed.

And I am doing this discussion here because I like Abantecart and wish to see it soar into the sky.
Over and out...   
"I know one thing; that I know nothing"

Offline Basara

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Re: Extensions Update 2
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2021, 01:21:43 AM »
Hello, everchanging.
Thank you for your opinion.
First, what you buy is always with you. You are not required to buy extended support. The version of the extension you purchase always available for download in your account.

The second point is when you buy extended support you buy support (bug fixes) and free extensions updates.

Offline maxter

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Re: Extensions Update 2
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2021, 07:44:22 AM »
As Basara pointed out, custokmers are not forced to purchase extended support.
I think the reason it was limited support to 120 days is related to below factors:

1. Improve service to benefit customers 
2. Burdan on authors to support customers indevinately and customers abuse that policy.
3. There is a cost involved with extension upgrade and improvment. Authors were deincentivized to upgrade extensions.
 
« Last Edit: April 06, 2021, 07:46:00 AM by maxter »

Offline abantecart

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Re: Extensions Update 2
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2021, 07:51:40 AM »
We can not expect Authors to provide customers support indefinitely. Some authors abandon extension and it can not be expected for them to reply or provide upgrade life time.
Everything should have expiration and life expectancy.

I wonder what time frame do you expect to have?

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Offline everchanging

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Re: Extensions Update 2
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2021, 05:15:07 PM »
OK, listen everyone because I have a feeling I am getting attacked here on a personal level while expressing my opinion.

So, let us get some facts straight and i will close the topic since there is no point in arguing.


1. Bug fixes by default means that the usually, not always but usually, it is the devs fault in some parts of his code not the buyers. Bug fix means that the dev found some issues with his code and fixed it. We do not need to analyse more on that topic.

2. I expressed my PERSONAL opinion that such an approach does not make sense to me.
Are there other approaches out there that can earn the devs - and the platform money / income?
Yes there are and they made more sense to me rather than having to pay for both:
- customer support
- updates

at the same time. Are we finally now at the same page?

3. Which approach Abantecart - together with the devs - adopt is solely their own thing since as I already have stated: "Their platform their rules". I respect that!

4. maxter you said:

"Burdan on authors to support customers indevinately and customers abuse that policy."
In this case, it means that the policy was either not clearly enough written or the authors own desecration.

5. User "abantecart" you said:

"We can not expect Authors to provide customers support indefinitely. "

Apparently you did not read what I wrote:

I suggested either charge for customer or for updates but not both!
For example, if you provide free updates for an extension whenever a customer wants you to do something - or to fix something - the customer will have to pay for customer support - in this case which can be either a one-time payment or paying for a customer support extension licence that can last for a few months or up to a year; it is up to the dev to decide.

To conclude, I expressed my personal opinion and I am gonna leave it at that.
I would like to thank all parties involved in the conversation and your valuable input.

As for the mod or admin consider this topic closed.








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